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( ¡´£N < ) Hwang Woo Suk (Taiwan Edition)



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( ¡´£N &lt; ) Hwang Woo Suk (Taiwan Edition)

   
Sujet: ( ¡´£N < ) Hwang Woo Suk (Taiwan Edition)
De: His.student.to.rename.his.membership.as.member.of (l' arobase) Academia.Random (UCB.Conrad.Suggest)
Groupes: alt.binaries.movies.divx.france, alt.binaries.movies.divx.france.d, alt.business.franchise, alt.fan.connie-francis, alt.fan.countires.france, alt.fan.countries.france, alt.fan.erik.max.francis.is.mc2, alt.fr.franc-maconnerie, alt.fr.franconews.discussions
Organisation: HiNetNews
Date: 27. Jul 2006, 22:09:51
  The Medicine Violence is on Taiwan Edition Hwang Woo Suk' side,
  that's why he libels but not punnished!
  Do you know how miserable the guy lives
   ,because he was libeled by Taiwan Edition Hwang Woo Suk ?

  20060509am0905 his father  died,
  20060605 his father was burned to ashes,
  20060612 his father was put into the tomb and sealed.
  20060728His father died 81 days.

  What's going on?
  whose mouth was shut up?
  Who shut the mouth?
  J.Y.Lin, dare you say the man who was libeled by you is not related to you?
  J.Y.Lin, dare you say his father was not related to you?

   Doctor  Lin:
  Hot summer,
  Sit  by the side,
  Get away from the circles of fighting.
  Suddenly ,the world calms down!
  Wind whistles ,
  Butterflies fly,
  Kitten crawls through,
  Bird singing,
  Travellers whistles.


  Doctor  Lin:
                     Be Honest!
                     Never ruin the reputation of  Member of Academia Sinica!

  What a bad example for the newcomers,the worst example people can find !
  To make the innocent researchers guilty!
  Like a dead dog being dragged!
  This is the faults of the leader!
  Why don't the leader admit the mistakes?
  Let the followers free!
  "Hsinchu925325.UCB.Conrad" <good@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:e1f7p2$nds$5@netnews.hinet.net..
  And when you see they practiced so smoothly,
  you could know,
  they get used to do these kinds of thing this terrible way---
  "cruelly neglect the human right",
  there must be some terrible premise in their mind,
  it should be find out,
  because  the goddamn thought would produce the goddamn result,
  now,if you would like to be civilized,
  you should not only pay attention on the ethics
  (ethics of motivation,ethics of procedure,ethics of outcome)
  ,but also practice it.

  Certainly, it     is not only the goddamn guys do the goddamn thing,
  but also a group of Paranoid
  Do you think they only do the immoral thing    "libel"   ?
  The  "libel"  is just the surface of the events,
  what's deeper is something more terrible,
   if you think about the Nazi-Concentration-Camp-Doctor and investigate it ,
  facts would come out!
  The first ,
  why the thing happens on that moment?
  There are many excuse to cover the real intention,
  because intention is something inside you can not easily find out,
  I would  try to show the relations between the guys who get involved .
  "Miaoli465307.UCB.Conrad" wrote in message news:e1dvdc$qo$4@netnews.hinet.net...
  This is a conscientious problem,
  If the researchers utilized the rascals to suppress  the innocent people for their research,
  What's the difference between the researcher and the  Nazi-Concentration-Camp-Doctor ?


   Through the training of companionship,
  they really cover so well,under the threat of .....,
  that no one dare find out what's going on!
  What's that   "......" ?
  Country Violence?
  Medicine Violence?
  .............................?
  It deserves to find out!

    "Taichung2370479.UCB.Conrad" <good@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:e15ebr$63d$2@netnews.hinet.net...
  For a Member of Academia Sinica,Yuan Tseh Lee devotes to his job
  and the progress of Taiwan,
  but  J.Y.Lin devotes to the pursuing of The Prize and the ruining of the family norm!
  For a Member of Academia Sinica,doesn't J.Y.Lin feel shameful?
  In Chinese ,"´µ¤å±½¦a" ,J.Y.Lin  should be not only shameful but also shameful to death!
  J.Y.Lin  is  the Taiwan-edition  Hwang Woo Suk,
  so called Frontier of Biochemistry,
   masculine bald,born 1934.05.27,male.
  what made him  Taiwan-edition  Hwang Woo Suk
  he violated the human right,
  the man whose human right was violated by him protests,
  he libels the man a psycho,violated again,also cheated,and committed a crime.
  In the procedure he violated the human right ,
  we can examine what he has done in his research to understand who he is.
  However this is a crazy country,
  Alain Touraine
  in his book  "Le retour de l'acteur:essai de sociologie"  Chapter11
  New Social  Conflict,
  it said
   [
   every place we can see the trend to medicalize social problem,........
  they marginalized social problem,
  extremely,if anyone who is against the authority would be taken as crazy.
   ]
  In a country that has so much conflict and get used to cheat ,what do you expect ?
  Especially ,when those guys are in the nobel-prize-fever!Those paranoid!
  I don't  think this is the only case,he has done,
  If he can intrigue to make a
  situation that make the people have the kinds of experiences ----
  [the bruno bettelheim said  :
     the experience in dachau & buchenwald concentration camp]
    Hannah Arendt said about the situation:
  "the psyche (or character) can be destroyed even without the destruction of the physical man."
  To survive the family have no choice,but do the immoral thing.

  What's more ?

  How many case do you think the Hwang Woo Suk(Taiwan-edition ) has done?
   it must be like the iceberg ,you can only see an angle,
  but the most serious crime is just like the iceberg under the water that you cannot see!
  But in an underdevelopped country,
  can they investigate these crime deeply like the korean people did ?????????
  Let's check
  how he committed these kinds of crime!
  "Yunlin679890.Conrad" <good@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:e0s4pb$ooh$4@netnews.hinet.net...
   In Taiwan,In the Medicine Field, they got their own profession ethics,
   through training of companionship, they got two attributes,so called
       1.  the feeling of honor(the honor to cover for each other,
            not the honor of honesty like admiting a mistake President George Washington did)
            Marcia Millman in her research tells us
           (the doctors don't critisize each other  in the formal group   because
            £t.a fear of reprisal
            £u.recognition of common interests
            £v.gentlemen's agreement).
             They keep covering their companion's faults,sharing the feeling of honor.    
   2.the facism,(they  can not face the reality ,too.)
            the facism ruins their courage to admit their mistakes
            The social culture factor of the Medicine Field ---Bigheadia makes it worse
            So ,the Dr. Lin becomes Pinocchio.Lin  easily.
   Who should be blamed?
       The social culture factor of the Medicine Field ---Bigheadia
       But ,Erving Goffman in his book
       "The Presentation of Self in Everyday Life"  tells us about  the "India thug"  story
       can explain more.
       The "india thug" do the cruel thing ,cruelly rob,kill  the innocent people,
       How can they not feel guilty?
       Because,their "in-group solidarity through the rite"  had given them "the moral support" .
       The same situation   "Dr. Lin"      becomes      "Pinocchio.Lin"    so naturally!
  "Kaohsiung2459926" <good@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:e0grdt$f5o$4@netnews.hinet.net...
  Taiwan-made Hwang Woo Suk is not only one guy but also include the guys who play the part of Pinocchio,
  the bundles of guys construct the Collective Nobel Prize Paranoid.
  These Collective Nobel Prize Paranoid suppress the poor man ,
  don't feel sorry,they even try to drive a  man  crazy,
  but the  man pretend crazy ,when those Paranoid didn't' pay that much attention,
  the  man escape ,and tell everybody the terrible story,
  let everybody know how worse these once-respected Guys are these paranoid.
  Who are these guys?
  Some of the Medicine Field.
  A country want to progress,
  to become a developped country,
  the  researcher must be honest,admit a mistake,like the korean researcher Seong said:
   [  "Researchers of our country were newly awakened to the fact that we have to take every precaution   
   to ensure we don't fall behind international ethics (guidelines) while researching." ]
  they got the national confidence ,
  but in Taiwan ,these attitute toward mistakes doesn't work,
  they get used to cheat ,they are used to be  liars.

  "portable" <good@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:dvtmom$d5b$1@netnews.hinet.net...
  The Adama Concrete lead the field of biochemistry,
  how can this field progress?
  but increase more ¶À¬ê¿ü( Hwang Woo-Suk)!Violate the human right ! Commit a crime! Tell a lie!

  IF the researcher were not honest,who can believe the result he reported,
  But in an abnormal country, for international fame ,there is every reason to fabricate the facts!

  'Can you imagine how the officers using every possible intrigues to libel the guy who revealed the facts '
     Let's think about the possibility of  [«ü³À¬°°¨]--------
     They told people a deer is not a deer but a horse ,because they are authority  . 
     They don't think the people would believe  what they have seen,but believe the authority said,
     this is found in this island,an undevelopped country.
     People believe what they have heard from the authority but don't believe what they really see.
     That's why Taiwan-made-Hwang-Woo-Suk,keep lying,keep violating the human right ,
     keep ignoring the Helsinki Declaration.
     That's why this country can't become a real developped country.

  If the researcher violated the Helsinki Declaration ,what should be done?
  Let's scrutinize  the words the researchers says and observe how he libels  the revelator!
  And we can know whether the  Member of  Academia Sinica is
   'Nobel-Prize  Hunger'  or  'Nobel-Prize  Paranoid' .

  Can you imagine a Nazi-Concentration-Camp-Doctor in Taiwan?

  If a scientist can not face reality ,don't admit a mistake,can't  introspect,can't  criticize self,
  could this scientist improve his research?
   Perhaps, He would be called ' Pinocchio'!
  "Festiger" <good999day2004@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:dv2mfv$k80$3@netnews.hinet.net...
  Áú­ºº¸¤j¾Ç¶À¬ê¿ü( Hwang Woo-Suk)±Ð±Â¨Æ¥ó¤¤,¦³¤@¥ó¨Æ«D±`­È±o²`¨è«ä¦Ò!
  Phenomenon of Collective Nobel-Prize Paranoid    vs   Phenomenon of  Nobel-Prize Hunger
  Phenomenon:
  1.the country do the legislative work for the researcher
  2.support as much money as the researcher request
  3.even deviation,to be patriotic,people take it as granted,
  4.people donate everything the researcher need
  5.people take it as a glory to serve the researcher,
     even researcher commit crime,
     the people   protect the researcher   with any excuse they can imagine
  6.take the researcher as a national hero
  7.to reveal the scandal, people would offend you in patriotic fervor
     for the truth,to inspect,you must act as Sherlock Holmes,as cool as a cucumber,
     perhaps you must prepare to sacrifice


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  Hwang Woo-Suk born 29,January 1953,Buyeo gun,Chungnam province, (South Korea)
  a South Korean biomedical scientist.
  He is a fan of the 17th century Italian physicist Galileo Galilei
  Hwang commented : 
  "Galileo dared to take on the powerful church authorities of the day
  to prove that the planets orbit the sun. At the risk of losing his life,
  he was brave enough to make a stand for science."

   Hwang first caught media attention in South Korea when he announced
  he successfully created a cloned milk cow,  in February 1999.
  and In the year 2004, rose to international fame after claiming
  a series of remarkable breakthroughs in the field of stem cell research,

  World take him as:
  1.one of the pioneering experts in the field of stem cell research

  Korean people considered the researcher  :
  1.a national hero
  2.a best candidate for Nobel Prize
  3.Pride of Korea
  organized a group "I love Hwang woo-suk" to support him

  Goventment support him with state funds
  1.annual stipend of US$ 3 millions and other research plan fee
     From 1998 to 2005 up to US$ 39.9 million
  2.the post office made a commemorative stamp on Hwang's research
  3.make the bioethics law for Hwang Woo-Suk
  4.launches the World Stem Cell Hub ,an international network

  what's wrong with his research?
  1.Hwang conspicuously failed to provide any supporting paper for the research,
     Scientist can not find any data that can probe the validity of the research.
  2.He denied coercing his researchers into donating eggs and claimed that he found out about the
     situation only after it had occurred.He added that he had lied about the source of the eggs donated to
     protect the privacy of his female researchers, and that he was not aware of the Declaration of Helsinki,
     which clearly enumerates his actions as a breach of ethical conduct.
     Evidence:
     December 8, 2005. Hwang's claim of not having known about the donation of eggs by his own female
     researchers was also denied by the panel; in fact, it was discovered that Hwang himself had distributed egg
     donation consent forms to his researchers and personally escorted one to the MizMedi Hospital to take the egg
     extraction  procedure.
  3.December 23,2005,  Hwang apologized on that day and admitted he fabricated results
     in stem-cell research .
  4.   On December 29, 2005, the university determined that all 11 of Hwang's stem cell lines were fabricated.
     The university announced on January 10 ,2006 that Hwang's 2004 and 2005 papers on Science were both
     fabricated. Following on the confirmation of scientific misconduct.

  Why can this terrible thing  keep that long time?
  ie,How Hwang woo-suk  protect himself?
  1.revelation:On November 22, "PD Su-cheop" (Producer's Notebook), a popular MBC investigative reporting show,
                     raised the possibility of unethical conduct in the egg cell acquiring process.
     defense:Despite the factual accuracy of the report, news media as well as people caught up in nationalistic
                  fervor in their unwavering support for Hwang asserted that criticism of Hwang's work was "unpatriotic,"
                  so much so that the major companies who were sponsoring the show immediately withdrew their support.
  2. Hwang actively sought to establish every possible tie to political and economic institutions in the country.
      Hwang especially tried to win favor from the Roh Moo-hyun government,
  3.some lawmakers revealed that Hwang made several campaign donations to them and other lawmakers.

  The description above is
   the Phenomenon of Collective Nobel-Prize Hunger
  and if they don't introspect they would become
                                      Collective Nobel-Prize Paranoid
  but they got the ability to introspect , and follow the pace of the world to become a developped country,
  they said:
   [Seong added:
    "Researchers of our country were newly awakened to the fact that we have to take every precaution
      to ensure we don't fall behind international ethics (guidelines) while researching." ]
  they got the national confidence .


  What would happen in taiwan,a nation that feel inferior?
  Let's think about the situation below :
   IF:  [
  1.a  Member of Academia Sinica who violated the human right  ,
  2.even more he commit crime,
  3.he doesn't  think  the human norm should be followed,
  4.he cooperated with the rascals   to maliciously intrigue against a poor family to reach a situation
  this situation just like 
  [the bruno bettelheim said  :
     the experience in dachau & buchenwald concentration camp]
    Hannah Arendt said about the situation:
  "the psyche (or character) can be destroyed even without the destruction of the physical man."
  To survive the family have no choice,but do the immoral thing.
  5.the Member of Academia Sinica  didn't feel sorry
  6.he is an officer before,so he has good relation with the authority to cover the crime,
  7.some colleague even  do some terrible thing worse than the Huang-woo-suk
    coercing his colleague to  take the egg extraction procedure

  What would happen in Taiwan?
  'Patriotism,'
  'Criticism of Member of Academia Sinica 's work was "unpatriotic," '
  'The officers using every possible intrigues to blackmail the guy who revealed the facts '


  What a country that's why people said  'an abnormal country'
  no self-confidence,malicious intrigued people who is against them.
  Collective Nobel-Prize Paranoid-----
  The old Member of Academia  Sinica and the guys who intrigue
  "tiger" <good999day2004@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:dsvc0l$bd1$1@netnews.hinet.net...
  ¬°¤FÁ×§K¥áÁy¥á¨ì°ê¥~¥h, Á×§K¥xÆWªº¦WÅA¨ü¨ì·l®`.
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  "Puma" <good999day2004@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:drto7c$set$6@netnews.hinet.net...
  ¦b«nÁú­ºº¸¤j¾Ç¶À¬ê¿ü( Hwang Woo-Suk)±Ð±Â¨Æ¥ó¤¤
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  »®º¸¨¯°ò«Å¨¥
  Initiated: 1964 17.C
  Original: English
  WORLD MEDICAL ASSOCIATION DECLARATION OF HELSINKI
  Ethical Principles
  for
  Medical Research Involving Human Subjects
  Adopted by the 18th WMA General Assembly
  Helsinki, Finland, June 1964
  and amended by the
  29th WMA General Assembly, Tokyo, Japan, October 1975
  35th WMA General Assembly, Venice, Italy, October 1983
  41st WMA General Assembly, Hong Kong, September 1989
  48th WMA General Assembly, Somerset West, Republic of South Africa, October 1996
  and the
  52nd WMA General Assembly, Edinburgh, Scotland, October 2000
  A. INTRODUCTION
  1. The World Medical Association has developed the Declaration of Helsinki as a statement of
  ethical principles to provide guidance to physicians and other participants in medical research
  involving human subjects. Medical research involving human subjects includes research on
  identifiable human material or identifiable data.
  2. It is the duty of the physician to promote and safeguard the health of the people. The
  physician¡¦s knowledge and conscience are dedicated to the fulfillment of this duty.
  3. The Declaration of Geneva of the World Medical Association binds the physician with the
  words, "The health of my patient will be my first consideration," and the International Code of
  Medical Ethics declares that, "A physician shall act only in the patient's interest when providing
  medical care which might have the effect of weakening the physical and mental condition of the
  patient."
  4. Medical progress is based on research which ultimately must rest in part on experimentation
  involving human subjects.
  5. In medical research on human subjects, considerations related to the well-being of the human
  subject should take precedence over the interests of science and society.
  6. The primary purpose of medical research involving human subjects is to improve prophylactic,
  diagnostic and therapeutic procedures and the understanding of the aetiology and pathogenesis
  of disease. Even the best proven prophylactic, diagnostic, and therapeutic methods must
  17.C 2
  continuously be challenged through research for their effectiveness, efficiency, accessibility and
  quality.
  7. In current medical practice and in medical research, most prophylactic, diagnostic and
  therapeutic procedures involve risks and burdens.
  8. Medical research is subject to ethical standards that promote respect for all human beings and
  protect their health and rights. Some research populations are vulnerable and need special
  protection. The particular needs of the economically and medically disadvantaged must be
  recognized. Special attention is also required for those who cannot give or refuse consent for
  themselves, for those who may be subject to giving consent under duress, for those who will
  not benefit personally from the research and for those for whom the research is combined with
  care.
  9. Research Investigators should be aware of the ethical, legal and regulatory requirements for
  research on human subjects in their own countries as well as applicable international
  requirements. No national ethical, legal or regulatory requirement should be allowed to reduce
  or eliminate any of the protections for human subjects set forth in this Declaration.
  B. BASIC PRINCIPLES FOR ALL MEDICAL RESEARCH
  10. It is the duty of the physician in medical research to protect the life, health, privacy, and dignity
  of the human subject.
  11. Medical research involving human subjects must conform to generally accepted scientific
  principles, be based on a thorough knowledge of the scientific literature, other relevant sources
  of information, and on adequate laboratory and, where appropriate, animal experimentation.
  12. Appropriate caution must be exercised in the conduct of research which may affect the
  environment, and the welfare of animals used for research must be respected.
  13. The design and performance of each experimental procedure involving human subjects should
  be clearly formulated in an experimental protocol. This protocol should be submitted for
  consideration, comment, guidance, and where appropriate, approval to a specially appointed
  ethical review committee, which must be independent of the investigator, the sponsor or any
  other kind of undue influence. This independent committee should be in conformity with the
  laws and regulations of the country in which the research experiment is performed. The
  committee has the right to monitor ongoing trials. The researcher has the obligation to provide
  monitoring information to the committee, especially any serious adverse events. The researcher
  should also submit to the committee, for review, information regarding funding, sponsors,
  institutional affiliations, other potential conflicts of interest and incentives for subjects.
  14. The research protocol should always contain a statement of the ethical considerations involved
  and should indicate that there is compliance with the principles enunciated in this Declaration.
  17.C 3
  15. Medical research involving human subjects should be conducted only by scientifically qualified
  persons and under the supervision of a clinically competent medical person. The responsibility
  for the human subject must always rest with a medically qualified person and never rest on the
  subject of the research, even though the subject has given consent.
  16. Every medical research project involving human subjects should be preceded by careful
  assessment of predictable risks and burdens in comparison with foreseeable benefits to the
  subject or to others. This does not preclude the participation of healthy volunteers in medical
  research. The design of all studies should be publicly available.
  17. Physicians should abstain from engaging in research projects involving human subjects unless
  they are confident that the risks involved have been adequately assessed and can be
  satisfactorily managed. Physicians should cease any investigation if the risks are found to
  outweigh the potential benefits or if there is conclusive proof of positive and beneficial results.
  18. Medical research involving human subjects should only be conducted if the importance of the
  objective outweighs the inherent risks and burdens to the subject. This is especially important
  when the human subjects are healthy volunteers.
  19. Medical research is only justified if there is a reasonable likelihood that the populations in
  which the research is carried out stand to benefit from the results of the research.
  20. The subjects must be volunteers and informed participants in the research project.
  21. The right of research subjects to safeguard their integrity must always be respected. Every
  precaution should be taken to respect the privacy of the subject, the confidentiality of the
  patient¡¦s information and to minimize the impact of the study on the subject's physical and
  mental integrity and on the personality of the subject.
  22. In any research on human beings, each potential subject must be adequately informed of the
  aims, methods, sources of funding, any possible conflicts of interest, institutional affiliations of
  the researcher, the anticipated benefits and potential risks of the study and the discomfort it
  may entail. The subject should be informed of the right to abstain from participation in the
  study or to withdraw consent to participate at any time without reprisal. After ensuring that the
  subject has understood the information, the physician should then obtain the subject's freelygiven
  informed consent, preferably in writing. If the consent cannot be obtained in writing, the
  non-written consent must be formally documented and witnessed.
  23. When obtaining informed consent for the research project the physician should be particularly
  cautious if the subject is in a dependent relationship with the physician or may consent under
  duress. In that case the informed consent should be obtained by a well-informed physician
  who is not engaged in the investigation and who is completely independent of this relationship.
  17.C 4
  24. For a research subject who is legally incompetent, physically or mentally incapable of giving
  consent or is a legally incompetent minor, the investigator must obtain informed consent from
  the legally authorized representative in accordance with applicable law. These groups should
  not be included in research unless the research is necessary to promote the health of the
  population represented and this research cannot instead be performed on legally competent
  persons.
  25. When a subject deemed legally incompetent, such as a minor child, is able to give assent to
  decisions about participation in research, the investigator must obtain that assent in addition to
  the consent of the legally authorized representative.
  26. Research on individuals from whom it is not possible to obtain consent, including proxy or
  advance consent, should be done only if the physical/mental condition that prevents obtaining
  informed consent is a necessary characteristic of the research population. The specific reasons
  for involving research subjects with a condition that renders them unable to give informed
  consent should be stated in the experimental protocol for consideration and approval of the
  review committee. The protocol should state that consent to remain in the research should be
  obtained as soon as possible from the individual or a legally authorized surrogate.
  27. Both authors and publishers have ethical obligations. In publication of the results of research,
  the investigators are obliged to preserve the accuracy of the results. Negative as well as
  positive results should be published or otherwise publicly available. Sources of funding,
  institutional affiliations and any possible conflicts of interest should be declared in the
  publication. Reports of experimentation not in accordance with the principles laid down in this
  Declaration should not be accepted for publication.
  C. ADDITIONAL PRINCIPLES FOR MEDICAL RESEARCH COMBINED WITH
  MEDICAL CARE
  28. The physician may combine medical research with medical care, only to the extent that the
  research is justified by its potential prophylactic, diagnostic or therapeutic value. When medical
  research is combined with medical care, additional standards apply to protect the patients who
  are research subjects.
  29. The benefits, risks, burdens and effectiveness of a new method should be tested against those
  of the best current prophylactic, diagnostic, and therapeutic methods. This does not exclude
  the use of placebo, or no treatment, in studies where no proven prophylactic, diagnostic or
  therapeutic method exists.
  30. At the conclusion of the study, every patient entered into the study should be assured of access
  to the best proven prophylactic, diagnostic and therapeutic methods identified by the study.
  31. The physician should fully inform the patient which aspects of the care are related to the
  research. The refusal of a patient to participate in a study must never interfere with the patientphysician
  relationship.
  17.C 5
  32. In the treatment of a patient, where proven prophylactic, diagnostic and therapeutic methods
  do not exist or have been ineffective, the physician, with informed consent from the patient,
  must be free to use unproven or new prophylactic, diagnostic and therapeutic measures, if in
  the physician¡¦s judgement it offers hope of saving life, re-establishing health or alleviating
  suffering. Where possible, these measures should be made the object of research, designed to
  evaluate their safety and efficacy. In all cases, new information should be recorded and, where
  appropriate, published. The other relevant guidelines of this Declaration should be followed.
  ¡± ¡± ¡±
  7.10.2000 09h14



Date Sujet  Auteur
27.07. o ( ¡´£N < ) Hwang Woo Suk (Taiwan Edition)UCB.Conrad.Sugg
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